61 Men Who Used To Proudly Identify As Involuntary Celibates Share Their Wake-up Calls

I had some great advice by a friend. I had to draw two columns on a piece of paper. Under the first column, I had to list "All the things I want in a partner." I put the usual things...[attractive], smart, successful, nice, fit, funny, etc... I was then asked to close my eyes and visualize this person. To imagine her and make her real in my mind.

Then the person labeled the second column. "Things that would attract this woman to me." I left the column blank and started to cry. I couldn't think of anything.

That blank piece of paper highlighted everything that was going wrong with women. I made no active effort to become a desirable person.

I kept the paper and eventually filled it in over the next year. I lost weight, dressed well, and went to law school to become a non-profit lawyer. I am currently sitting next to the most beautiful woman who I am scheduled to marry. Her cat is an [jerk] though.

For probably 10 years or so I was an "incel" and didn't realize it until I found r/foreveralone and got caught up in an echo chamber. I was constantly drinking, alone, at home, and wondering why no girls would talk to me or go out with me or even give me a phone number for the most part. I mean, was I not a nice guy? A proper gentleman? Being nice to all of these ladies and they weren't responding in a manner I felt they should because I was so nice all the time, I was doing stuff for my co-workers and they weren't appreciative enough. I'd be talking to a girl and find out they had a boyfriend and be so pissed that I was doing all this "nice" stuff for them and there was no way that they'd "return the favor by giving me a mouth hug or [intimate] times." Not fair, right?

Then, one day, after posting on a throwaway account I don't remember anymore, I was [complaining] about how this one co-worker who was leaving was such a [jerk] because she wouldn't respond to my advances at all and kept trying to friend zone me and I'd always be a loser and no one would ever want a guy like me because I guess I'm just too nice for my own good, right?

And some dude responded with something along the lines of "if you're only doing nice things because you think someone is going to reciprocate with [intimacy], you may not actually be a nice person. Just a nice guy. And nice guys suck. I think they even linked, or I found soon afterwards, a website about nice guys and why what you're doing is kind of a [jerk] move and maybe if you were just doing nice things for people because you were nice and not because you're putting nice coins into a vending lady to maybe show her how *special* you are you could find someone not repulsed by your overbearing, creepy antics.

So I worked on ways to be more confident in myself, improved my grooming (fat, lazy slob over here guys wondering why 8s and 10s wouldn't date smelly, sweaty me), got my haircut (I hadn't been to a barbershop in probably about 6 years at that point) and stopped treating women as some prize I had to win and more like people like me. And I got a girlfriend after ~1 month of that, that I still have to this day.

TL;DR I was a [jerk] in an echo chamber that rightfully got told off when venting about what a nice guy I was, changed, and am a better person now than I was 7 years ago.

Oh god, high school me wore fedoras and believed my "superior intellect and science-based social theories" were too much for everyone and that I was really a James Bond type with my knowledge of various fields.

Turns out I was gay as [hell] but so deep in the closet my zip code was in Narnia, not really that smart in anything but too ADHD to focus past basic knowledge of anything and in a desperate need of a new wardrobe.

Finally my time to shine, not sure if I should be proud of that.

I found my first incel forum at 13, even tho it didn't have that name. But the idologies were the same.

I was miserable back then, didn't have many friends, my grades were [bad] and I got bullied a lot.

This made me spend most of my time inside playing video games and hating life.

I hated everyone because all of my experiences with people where being bullied, I started being bullied at 4 and it didn't stop until the middle of highschool.

The forums where full of people thinking the same, it made me feel secure, like I was _right_.

I didn't have to walk the hard way to improve myself, they told me I could just let go. Nobody will ever love you so why try? You are a social reject so why try?

So I stopped showering, stopped eating, stopped caring for myself. I let myself go because these groups told me no matter how hard you try, you will fail.

I became jealous of people being more popular then me, jealous of my sister because she was so pretty and accepted herself.

She had a boyfriend, but all girls hated me.

At the time I didn't see that would I have just showered girls wouldn't have been disgusted by me.

I hated immigrants, gay people, women, handsome guys.

Everyone I saw as more accomplished than me.

It was a hard time getting out of this mindset, but eventually I made it. Turned my grades around, made some friends and went to therapy.

I even have a boyfriend now, oh the irony.

When I see incels or people like that I just can't hate them, they are in pain and struggling and need help.

Depression is one hell of beast and some people lash out in anger.

So when I look back at my old self, I really just want to give him a hug and tell him everything is going to be ok.

Described myself as an Incel for a time. I was a 19 year old virgin, and 4 chan was taking up the majority of my time. Got sick of being a virgin loner who blamed others for my shortcomings and hired a [woman]. Best decision I ever made. Shortly thereafter I realized that girls weren't attracted to me because I didn't take care of myself. I still struggle with that part, but now that I have an office job I'm going to the gym again, and most importantly I'm remembering to brush my teeth. I'm surprised anyone wanted to be near me with how infrequently I brushed my teeth.

For any Incels that are looking for a way out of this ideology, there is a very simple solution...

Treat women like people, and with respect.

You'll be surprised how far this gets you, no matter what you look like.

Even if you are a chiseled supermodel jock "Chad" and an example of what peak performance looks like, you aren't going to get far with women in the long term if you don't treat them with respect.

*Choosing not to treat women with respect is choosing to drive them away and be undateable.* "Involuntary" makes it sound so permanent and like the person identifying that way is helpless, but it's as changeable as your own behavior.

Oh God this was definitely me in high school. I was the creepy weirdo who, by the time I graduated, had asked every single girl out. I literally had no idea what I was doing wrong, I was practicing all the classic "Southern Gentlemen" things that I was supposed to yet having no luck (think "M'Lady", but only slightly less cringey). It wasn't until I got to college and went on a period of self discovery that I knew the error of my ways.

The first, and most important, concept that I learned was that women aren't dispensaries that you deposit "nice coins" into and get pusspuss in return. *They* have to choose *you*. I still kept doing nice things for girls because that's the way I was raised, but I removed my expectations for getting anything in return.

The second concept was making myself attractive, and it was a *lot* easier than I thought it would be. A nice basic buzzcut suddenly turned my oily mop of hair into a clean, presentable style. Went clean shaven on facial hair too, because all I could grow was a piddly "pubic hair" lookin' beard. Got a benzoyl peroxide solution to start working on the acne. Marching band was my form of exercise to stay fit and avoid the "freshmen 15".

Boom, done. Had an amazing gf for 3 years before we broke up to go our separate ways, mutually. It's amazing what a different perspective in life can give you.

I started going down that road, wound up in some weird social relationship dynamics and just took a long hard look at my life.

In my experience there are only two things stopping someone from [sleeping with someone].

1. Having unrealistic expectations and standards.

2. Not investing in yourself as a person. To expand on that point, being aware of and able to appreciate (even if you don't *like*) things that are mainstream, managing hygiene, putting effort into your friends, including women as *friends* instead of potential partners. Just generally try to improve yourself across the board.

Pretty simple, really. I think most incel's just need a good therapist.

You know, I don't know if this'll be buried but I can actually share something valuable here. TLDR, I was, it comes down to a lack of respect and ignorance to self awareness.

I did consider myself mostly an incel. Maybe, more of a "nice guy", but to my core I believed that girls were only after the Chads and douchebags. It was from the ages of 12-18, so a lot through my formative years.

Here's the mindset: you've never had any awareness of the fact that girls don't indeed chase [jerks], **because that's all you've ever looked for**. Whenever you see a pretty girl who says she is in a relationship, you immediately assume that her boyfriend is a terrible person. Though, **not because he is**, but because you yourself assume that you would just be *so* much better off with her than any other person. You don't/won't see your own flaws, so you'll assume the worst of the guy.

The truth is, it comes down to **major insecurity issues** and a lack of any male relationships.** If you don't have many different male friends, you're going to assume that only the cocky guys get the girls. In reality, they are displaying charisma and confidence - something that is very attractive. Everyone knows this.

It's a lack of awareness. It's easier to say that you yourself are too short, too ugly, too untalented, etc. than to admit that you have a crappy personality with little to no charisma. **You won't find a happy, charming incel.**

If I could have gone back to myself and say: Here's the deal. Girls don't look for one particular thing in a dude. They don't just want a "tall dude", or a "wide jaw" dude.
They want someone to be comfortable around. They don't want you to praise them as some higher being, they want to be treated with respect. But most importantly **- they don't exist to [sleep] with you.** ***They don't even exist to be your friend.*** They don't owe you anything - no one does. **Just because you like them, doesn't mean they have to like you.** Don't try to sleep with girls by being their friend. Be grateful that someone sees any quality in your person for them to want to be around you at all. Be grateful that someone wants to be your friend. You are shallow and you only care about looks - you saying it's about personality is all [nonsense].

That's it.

I was a young, angry kid. I'm glad I'm the man I am today; I've had a lot of confidence issues which went away as I grew older. I went through many edgy phases, and it took all of these mistakes to learn them. So I feel empathy for incels because they don't know any better. They don't know just how wrong they are, because admitting fault and self-improvement takes time and effort; blaming and hating girls does not. Instead of hating girls, my only wish is that I started on self-improvement sooner.


**EDIT**: I am thankful that this struck a chord with a lot of people. Many are asking what "self-improvement" means in this context. I believe it is subjective, but to me, it meant physical, mental, and emotional. TLDR, hit the gym, get hobbies, make female friends for the sake of friendship, and do real kind things for the sake of goodness and kindness.


More specifically, I started going to the gym after youtubing a lot of which exercises are the most important. A very helpful community like r/AskMen is a wonderful community full of great advice. Whenever a post pops up asking how to gain confidence, the top answers are always "Hit the Gym" - for good reason. So I did. I'd have to say that losing upwards of 25kg (55lbs) does change your own mental image. Suddenly, you feel like "attractivity" isn't as unattainable. Plus, you develop discipline and a much healthier lifestyle. That doesn't work for everyone, so I suggest investing time into a physical hobby. Cooking, learning an instrument, hiking, volunteering, dog walking - the list is endless. Seek personal improvement in something. Set goals and strive for them.


With mental improvement (mostly towards women), it took a lot of self-reflection to get anywhere. It did help that I grew up with 4 sisters, so I saw how much each one of those "handsome chads" broke their hearts after being used. Suddenly, wanting to be "Alpha" wasn't as appealing. Having sisters taught me how to behave around girls, but not everyone has that privilege. For that, I heavily recommend r/AskWomen. It in a way humanises women/girls as it gave me perspective on their insight. **They're real people with real struggles, too.** Imagine just wanting to exist and to go on about your own thing, and some helpful guy comes along. He's thoughtful and mindful, might even be a little funny. Then out of nowhere, he wants to spend more time with you, intimately. However, you are just trying to figure this whole life thing out, and sinking a lot of time and energy into a relationship isn't something you're looking for right now. You don't want to lead him on, so you politely decline his courtship.

^ That's a good case scenario. Bad/worst case, they get violent and either stalk you/attackyou.
These stories are a dime a dozen both on r/AskWomen and r/niceguys.

It also did help tremendously having female friends. The attraction may still be present, but friends you just want to exist with. Hanging out with them, seeing their struggles made me see that they didn't exist for my benefit.

With emotional improvement, this is the toughest that is hard to come back from. You need to be quite mindful and self-aware. I was such an edgy kid - I'm talking dying my hair black and straightening it, creeping people out purely for their reaction, using a thesaurus wherever possible, had the "girls are sluts chasing tall chads" mentality. I think doing good things for people as much as possible helped the most here. Whether it was being a pair of ears to vent to, helping family out with anything, filling in instrument roles for other peoples performances in music class - it all taught me what **real kindness** was. **Real kindness does not mean being a basic, civil human being.** To me, it means going out of your way to help someone **with the expectation of nothing in return**. Suddenly, annoying girls by calling them "pretty", and "pure", then getting mad when they don't compliment you back doesn't sound that kind anymore. "Nice guys" are actually unadjusted children currently incapable of self-reflection, rejection, and growth. All I can say is just focus on you. Don't focus on what you think people want out of you.


I'm only 23 so I have a long way to go. Of course, I'm still human - I'm still capable of being a [jerk]. However, humans are also capable of many selfless acts. Feel empathy and sorry for the incel whose only explanation to their terrible perspective on reality is blamed away on other people.

I don't think I ever fully embraced the incel mentality, but I got close for a couple years there. I couldn't figure out why it was so hard for me to have these close, emotional relationships with women that everybody else was enjoying. I blamed society, but I never took it so far as to blame women specifically.

But then I got a little introspective and realized that it was *me* who couldn't form close, emotional relationships. With anyone. I was completely blocked off, emotionally, from everyone around me, and trying to blame external factors for people not being able to get in.

Looking back, there were plenty of great women in my life who absolutely would've given me a shot had I not been so scared of being even a little bit vulnerable. But I consistently ran them all off with my own self destructive, narcissistic inability to trust anyone with access to my life.

I've spent the last couple of years learning how to be comfortable with being emotionally vulnerable and emotionally honest, and I've remained intentionally single and chaste through the journey. It's been difficult for me to navigate, but I think I'm a much better person for it and I think I'm close to being ready to have a mature, adult relationship.

I never considered myself an Incel, but considered myself a "nice guy" instead. I was a virgin until I was 23 years old, and have had many failed attempts at getting a girlfriend. Many times, the girl was even interested in me, but my confidence was too low to pursue them, and they eventually became disinterested and dated somebody else instead.

After hearing "You're like a brother to me" too many times, I just started cutting those girls out of my life. Still, every time I met a new girl, I kept trying to be best friends first, then trying to date them... over... and over... like an insane person.

Either way, in comes my current girlfriend. Met her at work, fell for her the moment I saw her. Things were hitting off and were going great between us. As usual, we became good friends, and then, I found out that she had a boyfriend. At that point, I was going to cut her out, but I made one of the most significant choices in my life instead.

I realized that she was an amazing person, and that I wanted her in my life even if I would never get the chance to date her... even if i had to spend the rest of my life alone - and I believed I would at the time. Well it turns out that her current boyfriend was a burnout and she wanted out of the relationship. I stuck to my guns and didn't pursue her, just helped her move out, and made sure that she settled into her new place comfortably since her family was on the other side of the country. Instead, she aggressively pursued me, and ignored my romantic incompetence. She was my first kiss (I burped in her mouth by accident and was instantly busted), took my V card, and in 2 weeks we will be celebrating our 4 year anniversary.

tldr; I stopped being a thirsty, desperate nice guy who felt entitled to [intimacy], and unsurprisingly, got girlfriend.

I think I was incel-ish not sure tbh but I did have the tendency to blame others for my problems. After a while I realized that I couldn't live life blaming others and never taking responsibility. It was during the summer of 2016 that I took the first steps towards leaving that mindset behind me. I became a lot more conscious of what I ate and how much I ate. I started grooming myself and buying clothes that fit me better. Went to the gym a few days a week and actually made some new friends at the gym. After a few months of dieting, working out, and dressing better some of my female coworkers started asking me if I had plans for the weekend. I got a lot more attention from girls whenever I went out with friends, and had a few romantic interests none of which worked out. Life's been a lot better since I made that change and it's embarrassing looking back at how I was two years ago. I've lost a total of 120 lbs, but gained some weight back recently (big move and other things). Incels can change, they're just too stubborn to want to make any changes to because they believe they should be loved for who they are rather than how they look. I'm all about personality but I also don't want someone who doesn't take care of themselves.

Actual incel here.

I had lots of chauvinistic views towards women. Them being more "emotional" and not doing anything productive. It is men that do all the work, while women just need to be pretty and so on and so on.

I was failing lots of classes in college and that kind of woke me up that maybe I might need help. (Not the fact that I would spend literally days without talking to someone in college).

So I went through a crazy self-improvement phase. Studied self-help books like it was my job. Meditation, joined every club I could think off. Found out women are into some really cool stuff. Became friends with some of them.

I would consider myself to be still an incel (without the ideology). I mean that is the point of it, there is no hope. But still, I could improve myself in the way that:

1. I am aware now that I am an insecure [jerk].

2. I respect women as human beings

So happy end, I guess.

Edit: Did not expect the comment to become so popular. I regret the phrasing of "there is no hope". You should not go into self-improvement in expectation of quick results, it might take years but anyone struggling out there: **Please get help, see a therapist.** You only got this one life so you might as well try your best. I might get laid or not, **I am still living an awesome and meaningful life.**.

I was raised in what can only be called a "matriarchal" family - the older brother to twin girls, my father and I always just...kept our heads down and went with the flow because it was easier to do what my mother and sisters wanted than to stick up for ourselves. This eventually turned into feelings of inadequacy, a lack of self-confidence, and putting others before myself so much so that it would end up hurting me - essentially, setting myself aflame to keep others warm.

The incel/red pill movement was this...mindblowing idea to me - it spoke to the experience I had growing up, and I fell for it. It felt like being part of a "resistance" against the way I was raised...and that group ultimately lead to me seeking counseling for depression when THAT hadn't turned me around and fixed all my problems with my upbringing.

I think a lot of incels have been (or feel they have been) hurt in some deep, intimate way by a woman and just need to understand that healing comes from within, not from extracting vengeance.

Ironically enough, it's my wife that's helped me overcome my upbringing more than anything else.

Figured out I was really trans which caused my depression and lead to my feelings of envy and resentment of women.

I was incapable of making a move on women because I couldn't understand why anyone would want a man (specifically me) to touch or be with them physically - despite the fact I'm pretty attractive and have been told this frequently.

I did finally have a steady GF at 26, but she was terribly depressed and I had to break it off because she was dragging me down with her.

It took me 2 more years of on-and-off failing at dating with other women and trying to understand why I was so bitter and frustrated to finally get to the bottom of my problems.

I've talked to a lot of late-blooming trans women and apparently they often fall into red pill or incel ideology for similar reasons.

If you can't love yourself, and take care of yourself, and make your happiness a priority instead of a means to getting women, you will never have that.

Independent happiness needs to be your sole goal - and incels place their happiness in someone else's hands. Because of that, they will never have it.

I would never go as far as to say I was a full-on Incel, but for a period of time I was definitely extremely sexually frustrated and really struggled in the dating world.

Honestly, this is probably not the popular answer, but here it is: I realized that just like life, dating isn't fair.

That girl you've got a crush on who already has a boyfriend? You may very well be a better person than her boyfriend, and would treat her better and everything, but guess what? It doesn't matter, because DATING ISN'T FAIR.

You're a decent guy, and you volunteer at Soup Kitchens and give money to charity and treat people as you wish to be treated, and this other guy gets 10x the amount of female attention that you do, despite treating women like they're idiots. Guess what? Doesn't matter, because DATING ISN'T FAIR.

Honestly, once you begin to sort of accept that, it makes everything better. You let go of a lot of the bitterness and this hatred for how the world is and just learn to simply be the best that you can be. It makes you a more pleasant person to be around and (not coincidentally) increases your dating success as well.

Learned how to read social cues properly, got over myself, and realized that friends would puff up my ego and try to make me feel better by blaming the other person, even though they knew the person I liked would never be into me or had lost interest in me, and would likely never change their mind (especially if if I kept trying to show them how "awesome" I was or called them x amount of times or did xyz).

Being persistent and goal-driven is great, until you realize you're pestering someone because you head is too far up your own bum to notice what you're doing is scary and unattractive. My behavior made me super unattractive to the opposite sex and I didn't even realize that I was the problem. I thought, 'I'm so great, if only they could see...' and they did. They saw me for what I was at that time, and I was a self-absorbed person.

Basically, if someone isn't putting in as much effort as you are, or if you're constantly chasing them/want something they're not willing to give you, then you need to step back and analyze your own actions. Are you idealizing the person you can't seem to get out of your head?


Usually it boils down to respect; respect them and yourself enough to move on from a person, etc., if it's not working out.

I realized it was my own fault. I couldn't keep blaming women for not wanting me.

Started improving myself, asking female friends what was wrong with me and taking their advice to heart. Women usually know pretty well why you're not getting laid, you just need to find women who are honest enough to tell you.

Basically I had a moment of clarity that there was no way I was right and half the human race was wrong. One of the most painful nights of my life. Just confronting myself like that.

After wallowing in self pity for hours I decided to concentrate on self improvement specifically by playing to my strengths and learning how to hold a conversation better.

Later on I told a friend of mine about it and she asked me out. Looking back I am about 80% it was a pity date but at the time it really helped. We had a few nice dates together one of which ended with us cuddling.

We both ended up moving but kept in touch for years. I am very grateful to her.

This story does have a happy ending me and my wife are hitting the decade mark fairly soon and I have daughters.

So to any girls reading this if you help an incel out you can really make a difference in his life, his future wife, and his kids.

Never identified as an incel, but I was definitely a “Nice Guy” until around 20 or 21. Basically, I grew up and realized that women are actually just regular people too and not some mythical guardians of [intimacy] and romance that I had to appease so that I can be rewarded with their attention.