“Subtle Sexism”: Guy Compares His And His Fiancée’s Pants To Prove A Point

Go take a handful of shirts or pants and just compare the size written on that little tag on the back. Your findings will probably differ depending on if you mostly wear men’s or women’s clothing. If this is news to you, then get comfortable as you scroll through.

This was an experiment that TikToker, father, ally, and Men's advocate Expatriarch, who shared the realities of women’s clothing sizes with his viewers. So if you have never gone into a store to buy women's clothing, then get ready to see just how many different sizes can, somehow, be applied to the same pieces of clothing. We got in touch with Expatriarch to learn more.
More info: TikTok

"Gentlemen, another way that subtle sexism shows up, is in clothing sizes. Now, my fiancée gave permission to raid her closet, and these are all pants that fit her."

"All right, so we got a size 8. We got a size 10."

"These are a size 4 or 27, size 29."

"We also have a medium, so good luck guessing what size that is. Apparently it's the same size as a large in these."

"All right, so let's compare that to the men."

"34. While sizing is pretty consistent for men, there's incredible variation in sizing for women across brands, meaning that waste measurements can't be relied upon."

"And you can even be a different numeric size in the same brand, depending on different styles, and even more difficult for their partners to be able to buy clothes for them. It's just something to consider that even something as simple as throwing on a pair of jeans can take women a lot more effort."

Bored Panda got in touch with expatriarch and he was kind enough to answer some of our questions. We wanted to know if he has gotten interesting responses from men who had no idea. "That video I did all came about from a conversation with myself, my fiancée, and a close female friend talking about the struggle of finding clothes that fit. I mentioned I should make a video and I don't think they thought I was serious. I think both because women are so used to it being such a problem that it's just a thing that is, and not noteworthy, but also that it is something everyone knows. For a lot of men, we have no experience with this, as the majority of us can stick to our standard sizing and grab and go, often never even trying on clothes.  I do, there were a number of men in my comments who had no idea this was the experience women go through (and a number of women who were shocked it was so simple for men). In particular, I had one comment from "puppychulo210" who said, "the way I rolled my eyes and assumed this was gonna be a reach but wow that's p messed up". I think a lot of men are overhearing about "patriarchy" and "sexism" so I'm grateful for those willing to keep an open mind, to listen, and to learn more about the lived experiences of women. I think it's important to share these stories to help men who don't live with women (and even those who do) understand their perspective and where these frustrations come from."

We were curious to hear his thoughts on why women's clothing was so poorly categorized. "To my understanding, standardized sizing for men came from simplifying ready-to-wear army uniforms based on chest size. It was tried for women based on bust size and there have been a number of voluntary sizing standards for women through the years but they have had limited success and adoption. I think a reason for that lack of adoption might be down to how men's styles rarely change, allowing manufacturers to offer a wide variety of waist/inseam combinations for men. While fashion is faster-paced for women's styles. Streamlining to limited options such as petite, regular, and tall (if there are even all three offered) might allow for faster design, development, and production of women's clothing. Regardless of the reasons why, it's a great example of how a seemingly innocent decision that isn't influenced by sexism or the desire to discriminate, can end up being discriminatory. These sizing issues mean women have to put more time and effort into finding clothes that fit, the convenience of online shopping becomes less of a convenience, and a lot more time is invested in needing to go through the returns process. This then feeds into a negative sexist trope against women. They take so much longer to shop, which feeds into the idea women are more vain and materialistic. Rather than recognizing the very real systems, behaviors, and practices of the fashion industry to cause this problem and perpetuate it."

He left us with some parting thoughts: "Just that this is a reminder that we should always question sexist and racist stereotypes and tropes. Asking ourselves why they might have come about and what we can do to recognize and dismantle our assumptions. As well as being open to learning about the lived experiences of others whenever we can." You can find Brent's channel here.

The only silver lining of this wild inconsistency is that the age-old, quite loaded question of “What is your size?” has been effectively declawed, as a woman can effectively give any size under the sun and probably not be lying. The bizarre reality is that more than half of American women (67%) wear a US size 14 or larger, yet many stores barely stock items in this range, as Time reported. Vox did a test and found that Marilyn Monroe, who pretty handily conforms to most modern beauty standards, would have fit into a 4, 4/6, 6, or even an 8, depending on the item and brand.

As Expatriarch stated at the end of his video, this creates all sorts of headaches when it comes to purchasing women’s clothing. Online shopping is the ultimate guessing game and good luck to any partner trying to buy their significant other clothes. Some fashion brands have attempted weak excuses, arguing that larger women require more fabric, although this doesn’t exactly explain why most stores will not carry a product that fits the vast majority of customers. Even if we attempt to take this argument in good faith (which is a stretch) the simple solution would be to charge more. People need clothes that fit them and they will pay good money. Fashion and fast fashion in particular have no excuses for not making items their clients desire.

Other research into this trend has actually found that sizes have shrunk over the years, as the New York Times reported, a size 2 now could have been a size 8 roughly a decade ago. One study argues that in this way, fashion brands can hijack the beauty standards and social pressures that many women are subjected to. Women whose bodies fall near the margins of these sizes can access clothing that is ostensibly labeled as a size that society says is acceptable, which brings psychological and, presumably, social benefits. Of course, this can’t work if there is actual standardization, as everyone would have an objective frame of reference. Instead, fashion brands obfuscate, so nearly anyone can find something of a “desirable” size, at the cost of any consistency.

This practice has become so common that even brands all owned by the same parent company (H&M would be a prime example) make no effort to standardize sizes. In the UK, most women fall between size 14 and 17, yet 6 and 8 are the industry standard. A similar study discovered that across 17 UK clothing retailers, over half of female shoppers had difficulty finding clothes that actually fit. It’s hard to imagine another business that can thrive, let alone survive while excluding a significant part of the population just to maintain a certain image. Exclusivity has some brand value, but it’s hard to argue that H&M or Zare is in any way, shape, or form “exclusive.”

The result is that people interested in shopping for women's clothes have to go to greater and greater lengths just to find something that works. As online shopping becomes more and more established, customers may be less interested in going through the rigmarole of trying on item after item. Perhaps it’s not the best solution, but consumer buying habits could ultimately be what pushes retailers to create a more comprehensive system. There are already third-party sites and tools to help women understand what a piece of clothing might look like and compare to other sizes. In some cases, women have fully switched to purchasing men’s clothing, although this really won’t work in many cases. But the bottom line is that women have to fight an uphill battle every time they want a new pair of pants.